Day Job
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Transcript:
Can you have a career today by only doing stand-up?
In most cases, no.
Flat out. No.
If you want to be a stand-up comedian today, you have to do WAY MORE than just stand-up.
And that’s not because you’re bad at stand-up.
People say “Don’t quit your day job.” and it’s this knock implying you aren’t funny.
But I know a crazy amount of funny people who can’t make a reasonable living as a stand-up comic. It’s not cuz they aren’t funny. You can be hilarious. You can crush, make room after room of random people burst into spontaneous laughter, and still just be barely getting by doing stand-up. That sounds crazy, but there’s so much more that goes into it.
Some of it is basic economics, supply and demand.
There’s way more people who want to be professional stand-up comics than there are comedy shows to perform at. There’s a bottleneck.
And because so many people love doing stand-up, there’s tons of talented people willing to do it for almost no money. It’s just that much fun. And if you can hire an equally funny person for less money, that drives down the cost of stand-up and everyone makes less money. So it’s harder for everybody to make a living as a comedian.
How do you increase the value of your own stand-up? That’s the problem, right? What makes you holding a microphone and talking to people more valuable than someone else doing it?
Is it laughs per minute? The industry standard is supposed to be a laugh every 15 seconds. 4 laughs a minute. You’re gonna be more than that for parts of your act, less than that for parts of your act. But that’s the average you need to be around.
Ok. Lots of people can do that.
Supply still exceeds demand.
Quality of laughs matters too. Some comics are going to get more intense laughs out of people. Their four laughs per minute are more enjoyable than another comic’s four laughs per minute - that’s true. That is a way you can distinguish yourself.
Some comics are more unique and interesting than others. Not only are you laughing, but you’re connecting with the audience more strongly with other emotions. They feel more like a friend or family member. That extra connection adds something. If you’re more relatable.
But still, lots of comics out there who can do that and nobody knows their name. Nobody is rushing to buy tickets to their shows.
So what gives? Why don’t people like laughing enough?
Well, they do. But they can get their laughs from all sorts of other sources. They have options. And all of those other options are frantically trying to get the attention of potential audience members just like you are.
That’s the second job of stand-up comedy: marketing. You’re in competition with every other form of comedy entertainment from a marketing standpoint. You have your day job. You have your art that you’re working on. And you have to be your own marketing agency. You have to produce commercials for yourself. If you don’t do that, you will not make it as a stand-up comedian.
You can still be a stand-up comedian. You can do shows and make people laugh. But it’s never going to be your full-time job.
Most people who know anything about comedy know about Marc Maron, his podcast WTF. You could draw a pretty direct line between him starting his podcast and every other comedian including myself starting our podcasts.
Marc was talking to another stand-up comic, Sam Tallent, and Marc said “You have to figure out what you want out of it and then you go get it. Go create it. No one’s ever going to give you anything.”
Marc’s been in the entertainment industry for years. He gets how it works. There’s too much supply, not enough demand. You have to go out and create demand for your art. Your art can be great, but if you don’t market it, very few people will ever appreciate it. The problem is, artists aren’t natural marketers, that’s one reason lots of ‘em aren’t appreciated until after they’re dead.
What I’m trying to say is, don’t let Sam Tallent die before you appreciate him. If you see that Sam Tallent is coming to your city, buy a ticket. He’s awesome. You will have a great time.
Sam wrote a book called “Running the Light.” If you run the light in stand-up, it means you went over your time on a show. They light you when you’re supposed to get off stage; if you ignore the light and just keep talking like a buffoon who doesn’t respect cultural norms of behavior - in true comic fashion, you have run the light. Stand-up comedians will mock any and all social convention, but you dare go over your time you mother…
“I’m a comedian, I don’t obey any rules! Except for when the light flashes at me, then I turn into a trained animal who finishes up his tricks and gets off stage like a good little boy.”
But Sam wrote this book about a fictional character named Billy Ray Schafer, who’s an older stand-up comic whose life has fallen apart a bit. I can’t do Sam’s writing any justice, so I’m not gonna try, but he’s a hell of a novelist. The book is brilliant. His descriptive language - the way he paints this story - I can’t describe it because I do not have the same mastery of descriptive language. It’s beautiful. It’s a beautiful book.
If you have any aspirations to be a stand-up comic, you need to read “Running the Light” by Sam Tallent. You have to. You’re dumb if you don’t.
But Billy Ray Schafer doesn’t follow the rules - he’s running the light, metaphorically, in life. Not just stand-up.
And if you’re just a person who enjoys great stories. If you want to read a unique, distinctly American story about a rogue artist, an aging renegade trying to keep it together - read the book. You don’t have to be a comic to appreciate this story. If there is any justice in the world, A24 will adapt that book into an independent film and it will be gorgeous and win an Oscar.
Sam also put together an audiobook version where a bunch of other stand-up comics read different chapters of the book. That’s actually how I listened to it. Definitely enhanced the experience.
Which, also, brilliant marketing move. You have all your buddies who are stand-up comics join in on the project. Their audiences get exposed to the book that way. Smart.
Sam’s hilarious. He can crush in any room. He’s been doin’ it for years. He’s a gifted novelist. He has a bunch of funny friends who support him and want to see him succeed. And by the way…you’ve never heard of him.
That’s how hard it is to make it as a stand-up comic. And it’s why, if you’re in it, you better be doing it for the love a’ the game. Cuz you’re probably not gonna make it. Enjoy the ride. Don’t worry about the destination. All that stuff. Very important to have that mindset as you struggle along.
BUT…if you wanna make it. Learn how to market yourself.
I think about this a lot. I have a note about it on my desk. Steve Wozniak invented things. You don’t know who Steve Wozniak is. Steve Jobs marketed things. He sold what Steve Wozniak invented. You know who Steve Jobs is.
If you wanna tell jokes, market yourself.
Lots of artists think that means selling out. I don’t think that’s true anymore. The internet has kind of changed the game. I think you can market yourself authentically by creating things online. The marketing can be part of the art. It’s not the same art as stand-up - but it is creative. It plays in that same headspace.
That’s the strange times we’re living in. That’s the new experiment.
How do you get around the bottleneck of there being too many comedians and not enough shows?
You bring the show to the people.
A comedy show isn’t convenient. You gotta buy a ticket. You gotta take a night to drive somewhere. You gotta pay professional sports stadium prices for bar food…The ding dong on that stage better be funny. Better be relatable. Better twist your brain around in all sorts a’ fun ways you weren’t expecting. That’s a risk to jump into that experience blind.
So now, we have this weird opportunity to find fans online and convince them to be some of the butts in seats at our shows. You have to find ways to create new demand for your unique art. Challenge accepted.
If you got nothing else from this episode, go follow Sam Tallent on Instagram and TikTok
@samtallent and @samtallentcomedy
Here’s the other thing about Sam’s book “Running the Light.” The book feels good. Texturally. I don’ know what this is made out of, but it feels good in one’s hands. I read a lot of books - I’m a book nerd. This is a paperback - but not all paperbacks feel the same - this one feels nice. If you’re watchin’ the video version of the podcast on YouTube, you know that I’m wiggling it in my hands right now and I’m doing that cuz it feels right.
If I ever write a book I’m gonna message Sam like, “Hey, strange question…what is your book made out of? I know it’s paper, but what kind of paper? What’s the thickness? What’s the grade? Is it coated with something specific? Why does it feel this way? I want to make my book out of your paper.”
So yea, I’m a freak for books. I have a book recommendations page on my website, anotherlazymillennial.com. Look how I snuck some marketing in on your little punk ass. You gotta keep an eye on me. I’m always doin’ that. This could make for a decent stress ball. If you’re fidgety? Got anxiety issues? Jus’ do this… Oh, this is nice. This is calming me down. Very good. It’s a great book - both because of the words inside it and because of how it feels in the hands - buy the book.